2015 - oral submissions LTP
Notes made during the Oral Submissions to the 2015 Long Term Plan
Note: There will be some gaps as I could not attend Wednesday afternoon or Monday evening, and had to leave the Chamber several times each day to move my car. Sometimes the I could not hear questions and/or answers.
Wednesday, 6 May 1-4pm
Kerry Neal -
Page 91 – Trafalgar Centre
Justice cannot be done to the Trafalgar Centre in five minutes. Before you start the clock, Madam Chair, there are a few points of procedure that need to be addressed:
- Submitters have been given very short notice of this meeting; in fact I received my written notice today. The person on the NCC main phone did not have details of this meeting. The short time span must have made it very difficult for the staff to organise speakers.
- In view of the fact that the Trafalgar Centre report has not been released, an adjournment of the Trafalgar Centre item be considered until the true position is known. I am in your hands. (There was no response from the Chair). I then said, “You may now start the clock”.
- North wall veneer: Consultants said they couldn’t find details.
- Concrete Strength: Consultants again said they couldn’t find details
- c)Foundation Beams: Consultants said the ground could not support these beams. These beams were never meant to be supported by the ground. They are self-supporting.
- d)Southern End: NCC Building Division signed off this unfinished building illegally
- e)Pile Depth and Bearing Capacity: Reports stated that the bearing capacity was 13 kilonewtons which equates to 1¼ tons – it should have been 400 – 500 kilonewtons which equates to approximately 40 to 50 tons.
- f)R O Davis: The great guru from Canterbury University got it wrong.
- g)Holmes: Were advised by Dunning Thornton to have another look at their figures.. Holmes put 15% on the Victory Room, Dunning Thornton have 35% and Holmes are still on the payroll! Remember, even the 35% was based on the belief that the foundation was sub-standard. Imagine what the percentage would have been if they had had the facts.
- You will remember that liquefaction and lateral spread were the exciting and frightening catch phrases initially. I thought of this when listening to poor old Derek Nees on Anzac morning telling everyone – “in event of a fire, leave the stands”. What he should have included was, “however, in event of an earthquake people should move immediately towards the stands – we don’t want to lose you down the cracks when the ground laterally spreads.” And, Councillors, when are you going to demand that the lawyer clarify the position.
- Coat hanger
- Flimsy screw piles and diagonal bracing
This has been a nasty experience. Not only have I and the team been fighting to squeeze the truth and facts out – we have had to fight you people as well! Your election in 2013 (except for a few) gave us great hope that here at last was a group that had experienced the humiliation of being cut out of issues during the previous term and, along with some new fresh faces who had clearly indicated that they also understood that their role was to represent the people, not protect the establishment at all costs, our hopes were high. Alas, what we have witnessed is an example of just the opposite.
If you are still in denial, you should leave the room now because I am not interested in dumb assumptions, only facts! But before we talk finance, let’s re-look at some of the nonsense that has occurred:
First of all you must transfer $600,000 back into the Trafalgar Centre Capital Expenditure Account from the Saxton Account. The proposal in the LTP is to spend $9.5M. You have spent $1.5M.
Items Under Consideration: New roof, $1M; northern end, $3M, southern end, $1M; leaving $3M for any upgrade. Until the facts are known it is impossible to judge where this is going but unless you make mighty sure that there won’t be a call halfway through the job for a lot more money, you’d better halt it now!
As an example, what happened to the two ridiculous options?
Are they lurking in the background? If they are, you will need a lot more than $3M.
Thursday, 7 May 9am
Youth Council -
Filled in 964 surveys to schools and NMIT
Arts Centre – want a new one, they have one in Marlborough
Better footpath at Saxton. Important safety feature.
Student internship – good idea, promotes youth employment.
Gondola – 70% didn’t know about it, but thought it was worth supporting. Rotorua and Queenstown have bike parks, results are good, very popular, international reputation. It would be good in Nelson… right in the middle of the country. We bike at night and in winter. We support council letting land to commercial businesses.
Noonan: how did you decide what to ask for?
Youth: we had 10 items and cut it down
Matt: why did most of the people not know about the gondola?
Youth: They don’t read the newspaper, the mountain biking youth know about it.
Matt: how can we communicate with youth?
Youth: on line
McGurk: Saxton, some people have been assaulted, I want to hear more.
Youth: I was followed by a drunk guy, ditch is close to the footpath, there’s no light and it’s quite deep, so it was scary. Needs lighting, criminals don’t like to be around lighting.
Youth: 1 worked, 2 went, 3 have been out of town to see a concert.
Youth: I talked to Forest & Bird and they gave me lots of negative information.
Rachel: “there will be a cost for arts centre”, what does that mean?
Youth: We only mentioned cost because there will be a cost to ratepayers.
Matt: How many of you want to stay in Nelson?
Youth: 6 out of 10
Gail Collingwood –
Sister City is going to get active in the “China Week” coming up in Nelson.
Stoke/Greenmeadows - Seniors have been overlooked. Library is important, even if name is changed for its changing services.
Maitai - Access for all at pontoon, has 6-7 steps, so not good for “everyone”. Consider the change of social events but of changing the dynamic of the area. Is there a safe walking path to/from residential areas… to the big playground? How safe is it if pedestrian elements have been removed. Toilets. Parking. What’s the demographic of the area.
Housing – with government involvement, value your old residents in the area.
Gondola – surrounding land has a resolution over it. Near the entrance to camp ground is Eureka Park, it has never been actioned because of redwood trees, very overgrown. Trees need to be on show. Decision have been made to enhance it, so it needs to be actioned. Needs to have fence posts around it and along the track to highlight the area.
Noonan: would you leave your notes please
Gail: there should be a destination playground, so there is a need to walk there.
Rainey: Playground question, what is your rational, central city needs playgrounds
Gail: Yes, but where is the population? Pioneer Park would the nearest and residents would stop here unless Maitai was really special.
Matt: Wellington has one that is very good.
Gail: Yes, I’ve seen it, but consider the social consequences of changing this area. The swing was used, it was moved, now it’s not used. I just want to bring notice to the dynamic. Where is the population of children?
Ross Wylie –
Annual rates increases, based on local government factor (plus 2%) this is calculated on past trends. Does this have relevance? These numbers are not real or relevant in future planning. Page 25 – based on 2012, quite a difference in variation, indicates some sort of subsidy on lower value properties. This is not social justice. Should be fair and equitable. Your two calculations don’t match.
Redwoods in Book Valley – redwoods are supreme and majestic, could be named for Thomas Cawthorne. Needs a historical remembrance for the 2,500 acres of land in Brook he donated. Used to have his name on maps, now it has disappeared. It was bought by Cawthorne and donated to the city. Needs some sort of remembrance.
Peter Rigg – Page & Blackmore
Partnerships – We support the gondola and school of music. In favour of Arts Festival, and a Readers and Writers festival – it would not be good to change to every alternative year. Approve of a new entity to take it over.
McGurk: how abbot the Masked Parade?
Matt: you are a sponsor, why do you want it once a year.
Peter: I like the Readers part, people look forward to the international acts.
Tim: what do we need to do to keep city buzzing?
Peter: People living in the city centre is a good idea.
Ward: Book festival good?
Peter: authors who come say it is enjoyable
Steven & Penny Palmer –
We are the “green nutters”, we only recently moved in from Auckland. We were with the northland sanctuary and it was very successful economically. It has 170,000 visitors a year, most from outside the district. Now the business and community are very protective of the park.
Nelson has good parks, arts festival, but we’re less impressed with the protection of indigenous trees. Things not looked after – Grampians, Centre of NZ, they should be absolute treasures and protected. Generational morality needs to be preserved, area being smoother by Old Man’s Beard, maybe need to get groups to join in to help council but they also need council help them to survive. Areas shouldn’t have to rely on success of Sanctuary to be recognized.
Centre of Stoke is a mess and the library is abysmal. Not kid friendly, Richmond Library a better example.
Palmer: It’s easy to plant trees, hard to keep up maintenance.
Ash Price –
There were 126 submissions on Kohatu Adventure Park. Out by Tapaware, community facility for top of the south, Inc. Society, 500 paid members, car and motor sport activities, we’re asking for $50,000, we have our long term plan to establish. In 10 years this will be a large multi-use, 50% to motor sport, 50% for camping and other activities. Joint with Tasman Council, land is in Tasman. Other parks in other places are owned and run by councils. We see this as seed funding, once it is up and working it will be easy to get other funding. Need funding to start happening. We envision 39 full time positions with full financial impact on area.
Rainey: I’ve been to others and they are exciting. But, all other parks are in large catchment areas, Kohatu is not. Why level of investment is so high?
Ash: Cromwell is a private enterprise. Hamdan is a race track. We are looking at many sports, a 21 mile mountain bike trail. We have a need to create a park to meet club’s needs, then we can grow and add facilities.
Davey: have you approached Tasman?
Ash: Yes, we want to see joint approach like Saxton Field. Highway has to be upgraded before we can hold major events. Initially this does not have to happen.
Gaier Thompson –
I’m here again but, nothing seems to change.
Kohatu - could be on Rabbit Island, handier and closer and they have space.
LTP document - short of facts, I had to go to council to get more detail
Capital Value Rating change - not enough detail.
Storm water – ours goes through the property and right into the tide. Your numbers don’t seem to work, too much spin.
Differential - you are NOT business friendly, it has targeted rates, now you want us to pay for parking. The parking lot has been paid for, this money is now going to bus and other things.
Rate per tenant for wastewater - city centre… even kiosk has to pay. Some facilities have their own kitchen. Should be user pays.
Trim funding to tourism - I don’t know what value we get
Trafalgar C – state advances was quick decision on earthquake assessment, do the same. Carpark is OK, can’t park on grass in the winter.
Band Room - silly. $50,000 to demolish, ridiculous.
Scrap Live Nelson – only one side of the story, rely on paper
Liaison officer – don’t need
Waimea Dam – there are other ways to save water
Sister City – nice to have but not necessary
Sanctuary – more than a small issue, people pointed out trouble from the start. We needed a fence around Maitai to protect rating of water, could have been used as pest proof fence. Would you spend your money this way?
Mountain Bike people – in Chch they are spending millions, bikers seem to want a small amount of assistance and they do work voluntarily.
Camp site – encourage and upgrade to make financially viable
Debt - seems to be rising rapidly. Can’t borrow money for items of no financial return
Airport – out of town architect who makes trendy buildings.
Pet crematorium – why are we getting into that.
Pond – need it, but 1mil is too much
Noonan: you’ve mentioned more things than your submission, send a copy through
Rachel: What do you mean, inner city living without expanding area?
Gaire: keep it in the inner city so they can walk to work, don’t go out of CBD limit. Don’t just build on vacant areas.
Barker: rowing facility?
Gaire: they didn’t get any money from Tasman, they do want to share facilities.
Nicola Hill - Rutherford Street Kindy
The Kindy has been there 50 years, need more parking during the week. Need more land, in different place.
Rainey: I am an old-boy. Have you looked at plan?
Nicola: lots of our people walk or bike, we’d like property to be near library
Davey: where do people come from?
Nicola: From Attawhai to Stoke, parents who work in the city
Stuart Walker -
This Council is OUT OF CONTROL on a number of fronts –
You are OUT of control – because you are not IN control.
And you are not IN control, because the current Local Body System doesn’t ALLOW you, to BE in control. This needs to change.
I’m sure you all know what I mean here – this is an issue of National importance, faced by all Councils.
You really don’t know just what your CEO’s Staff are up to, and when you do find out, it’s too late!
Take Rutherford Park / Maitai Walkway / Trafalgar Centre (TC) for example -
At last week’s Council Meeting on the 30th April, I sat in the public gallery and heard Mr Petherham state at least three times in answer to questions, “That there had been extensive public consultation on Rutherford Park”.
(Maybe there was, back in 2011, with the last Council – I don’t know).
But did the Public really request an Airport Runway to be built beside Rutherford Park?
Because of this huge concrete monstrosity restricting the existing roadway to the TC, there now should be FURTHER consultation, because things have changed dramatically.
I was favourably impressed by Cr Acland and Cr Skinner, both questioning the horrendous cost of the proposed new “Road to Nowhere”, and even the actual need for it. At this stage, we don’t even know where the entrance to the TC will be – it’s like building a driveway for a new home before you have decided where your garage is going to be.
Mr Petherham’s excuse for the need of a new $1.9m road was because HE wants a green space between HIS massive promenade and the existing TC access road, so HE thinks it should NOT remain where it is! Well, HE should come up with the outrageous $1.9m required from his own pocket.
After listening to him, I now realise that Mr Petherham would have been one of the first to know the full details of the actual walkway plans and dimensions, from the out of town Designers, and so he would have known just how much it would restrict the existing road at the Band Rooms. I was really horrified when I first saw where the boxing for the concrete was being placed, and yet Mr Petherham would have known well before then, that it would require either the Band Rooms to be demolished, or a completely new $1.9m road to the TC – and yet he allowed this to happen! Again, “The Rate Payers will fund it”. Another classic example of not knowing enough detail of what’s going on – once the concrete was poured it was too late - and you allow staff to get away with it!
I recall at a Council Meeting some months ago when the Walkway cost overruns were being discussed, the Mayor said “We saw plans for a lounge suite, we ordered a lounge suite, but we didn’t get the lounge suite we ordered”, or words to that affect.
Now the Band Rooms are having to go, along with all the associated tenant relocation headaches. (Conveniently, I understand because of earthquake risk)
However, I read in last night’s Nelson Mail that there is now an indefinite “Stay of Execution “on the Band rooms. So now it seems that they might have been able to stay there permanently, if only this had been handled properly by the staff concerned.
You really don’t know what’s going on!
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO SOUND REASON WHY THE EXISTING ROAD CANNOT BE RETAINED AND SAVE $1.9M. – all it requires is a barrier against the road side to protect youngsters at the Skatepark, some gravel to raise the level of the lower section of the road, and you have two lanes available for access to the TC as before, and no highway cutting through the middle of Rutherford Park. Spend just a few hundred thousand dollars and save the $1.9m - for goodness sake!
It appeared to me, that only Cr Acland and Cr Skinner were on to it.
CAR PARKING AT THE TRAFALGAR CENTRE
At every significant event at the TC, the car park is always overflowing, and yet Mr Petherham has taken this opportunity to REDUCE the number of parks, instead of INCREASING it.
He states that this new lesser quantity “still meets the Resource Consent conditions”. This statement is PATHETIC. Surely proven DEMAND should dictate what is required, not the minimum spaces dictated in the Consent?
As I said at the start “You don’t know what’s going on, until it’s too late”!
I could see by your body language and questioning, that a number of Councillors were uncomfortable with what Mr Petherham was proposing for the new road and Rutherford Park. Please express your concerns more vocally, because the next one, is the Big One, THE TRAFALGAR CENTRE STRENGHTHENING.
During Mr Kirby’s discussion on the TC, I expected someone to ask just how much of the $450k allocated to his work is left unspent – but not a word. These are the sort of queries I expect from Councillors. You have to keep on top of the DOLLARS or Ratepayers will again be faced with “unexpected cost overruns “.
Please do your duty as elected representatives of the Nelson Ratepayers, and only authorise absolutely BAREST ESSENTIAL work to be done on the TC.
As we Ratepayers are the source of funding for all your Expenditure, we are entitled to know the FULL DETAIL of HOW the Total proposed commitment to strengthen the TC will be arrived at.
In Mr Kirby’s Report, we expect to see a breakdown of costs for the Southern End, including separate Costings not only for any structural upgrade, but details of finishing off the incomplete Fire Rating etc , which was signed off in error by NCC Inspectors (just hours before the first event, which was the Billy Connelly Concert, I understand).
So, from a Fire Rating perspective, the TC has been NON COMPLIANT ever since the Southern End was built. I bet the same Inspectors wouldn’t allow this situation to continue in a privately owned building.
Non-compliance is also still evident at Saxton Stadium. I assume appropriate staff haven’t told you Councillors of this yet. Public Liability Issues surface here again.
As I earlier said, “You really don’t know what’s going on.”
In the MAIN STADIUM we expect a breakdown of both any underground and above ground structural work, as well as separate costings, on any tiered seating upgrades, or ANY non-structural upgrading and “Nice to haves”.
We also expect all items listed and costed separately, for any General Maintenance work, (such as a new roof which is being spoken of, stadium floor being resurfaced, exterior painting etc. etc.).
If this detail is NOT provided, how can you Councillors make an informed decision on what is ONLY ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to be done? You are likely to find additional unnecessary extra items being “Buried “in the totals.
If satisfactory detail is NOT provided, then you leave yourselves exposed to the very real possibility of an INJUNCTION causing a halt to all work, and not being able to meet the targeted Reopening deadline.
(The above comments relate to the Southern end and Main Stadium only, and are based on my understanding that the TC will have a staged reopening , with the Northern End attended to as a separate exercise.)
FINALLY, you Councillors are effectively the Board of Directors of a large Public Company, whose primary function is to provide essential City Infrastructure for its Shareholders, the Ratepayers. You are paid handsomely to do this.
You are NOT a Benevolent Society or a Welfare Agency (other Organisations do this work). Please remember this.
Matheson: southern link is the transport dept issue – not us
Stuart: the discussion was made when my Dad was a councillor. 40 years is long enough. Those involved in commerce are adversely effected.
Matt: southern link, if the answer is No from the Transportation Dept, should we spend ratepayer money?
Stuart: it’s really just an arterial road, stop calling it a motorway, Yes I would be happy to spend my money.
Rachel: TC, you’re talking about just the barest essentials?
Stuart: the southern end and main stadium. Dollars will dictate what accrues. Northern end is different.
Mike Young –
Stormwater on capital value, our rates went up 11%, over the last 10 years that’s 100%. Where do we find this money? We’re superannuitants.
Davey: Have you talked to your neighbours?
Mike: I’ve done this myself. Two old neighbours don’t know, others are in the pipe that goes to the highway
Dan McGuire –
In 25 years my rates have quadrupled. Focus on core business, I am careful and conservative, Council is not, your increases have outstripped safe investments. My home is 60 years old and will get hit with extra stormwater charges. My family left England to avoid taxes, you are trying to socially engineer rates.
Gordon Curry with Dan McGuire - Greypower
You have kept a lid on debt, which is good for superannuitants.
Pathway – bikes are going too fast, Richmond and Nelson. Those on push bikes think they have right of way. Walkers forced off track. Saxton field is very rough, only good for mountain bikes. Dun has become a bike track with no consultation, now dangerous for walkers.
Rates rises - outstrips inflation, members in central city are being targeted.
Services, storm and sewage - needs upgrading. Consultation with Tasman on Lee Valley Dam needed.
Drainage in Stoke - needs to be deepened, Poor Man’s Creek.
Southern Link - needs to happen
Reduction of community grants is good - NO MORE MONEY FOR BROOK SANCTUARY. Trees are being felled when we were promised no trees would be harmed. Land is unstable. We have seen the first major slip. There will be no end to these costs. Stick to core business. Festivals and events should be privately funded.
Bus service – have it on public holidays.
Greenmeadows – one stop shop for elderly
Tahuna Beach – needs walkway for elderly all the way to the hard sand.
Rainey: how many members
Rainey: Are these views held by all of the members? Not really, how are they consulted?
Gordon: Did you consult all ratepayers?
Rainey: this seems the same as Dan’s submission we just heard
Curry: I didn’t write it, I am only presenting. We take notice of all members
Rachel: is there a mandate for different members to do specific tasks?
Gordon: Yes. 3 members worked on the local body submissions; Malcolm, Dan…
Rainey: What information do you draw on?
Dan: I canvassed members and the whole committee had to approve the submission
Rainey: engaging local groups is good, but do all the members indorse the submission?
Davey: It is inappropriate for Rainey to question their procedure
McGurk: should we increased $ for stormwater?
McGurk: How should this be paid?
Gordon: I haven’t studied. Membership will be hit with targeted rates in a discriminatory way. Rates will double and double again. They will have to divert money from their ordinary budget.
Noonan: ability to pay?
Curry: we don’t go into members finances. Figures we do have of those living on Super say #1 cost is food, #2 is rates or rent.
Matt: southern link, if transport comes back and says No, would members be happy to pay?
Curry: people will always have mixed opinions, but Rocks Rd. is backed up. Couldn’t answer.
Skinner: shared pathways, how can we deal with it?
Curry: roads were never designed to be shared. Motorists don’t obey rules, and bikers won’t either, for one they don’t indicate. Pedestrians complain that bikes go by at speed without warning. It is a hard subject.
George Truman - This is the official Greypower submission
Bus - Need public transport on public holiday, this is only 8 days a year, 5 return trips, can be done with 1 driver.
Stoke fire station - gets flooded because it is a short catchment, plenty of gradient, needs to be deepened. 60% of kids go to school by bike, highest in NZ, needs footpath for kids to get across Main Rd.
Tahuna Beach - Access for wheelchairs to get to hard sand, we’re prepared to do it ourselves, I calculate it will take $2,000 in material
Trafalgar St to port - needs path
Greenmeadows – need upgrade
Bikes - Riders need free bells, need education over 18 months, temperary signs – problem is cyclist not walkers
Rates - We are a low wage town with low interest rates, it’s hard for superannuitants.
Geroge: We want a boardwalk all the way to hard sand, 60 metres to the sea.
Goerge: you can’t get blood out of a stone, it is a concern.
Matheson: Nayland road, they are on it now.
Tom Taylor –
New to Nelson from Chch. The walkway at Sumner you can access hard sand, it’s very good.
Rating for flooding should be revisited.
Cutting support for community needs is not good, they do important work below the radar, it is money spent on residents, rather than businesses.
Karen Driver –
Strong community is essential, concentrate on infrastructure; social, environmental, physical.
Needs to be facilitated by council, how much budget goes to each? Need targets, set priorities.
Rainey: community assistant fund. What priorities?
Karen: not my job, needs more consultation. Business and community
Karen: Needs to be across community support.
Karen – as Environmental Centre
I am staff and board member. We support Nelson Nature initiative, and sustainable transport. A forum is needed.
Ward: Nelson 2060 document, do you use it?
Karen: there is a need to involve other groups, the principles are good
Jim Cable –
I support Gaire Thompson, Kerry Neal, Ross Wylie, and Stuart Walker’s submissions.
Trafalgar C - handling is central and still unresolved. Driver is a legal opinion. There are more important things to consider. Didn’t see anything like this with Rutherford Park.
Sothern Link – issue is not the money, it’s the need for the link. Millions have been squandered on St. Vincent St already.
Silly cycle lanes – by Harvey Norman,
Brook Sanctuary – has captured your imagination. Wellington has only 7k of fence, we chose 14. We have under minded shallow rooting beach trees. The ongoing maintenance cost will be humongous. Rate increase will pale in comparison when this is added to expenses. Has to be reviewed.
Debt cap – debt has to be coming down, mill stone around the neck of progress.
Rates – increase, is it really necessary? Inefficiencies within council, staff; iwi rep should be paid by iwi, they are there to watch their interests.
Staff – we want people with practical experience, not “professional experts”.
Not council’s fault individually, I stand as one representative and want to see less on touchy-feelie and more on practical matters.
John-Paul Pochin and daughter – Cycle Forum
Advocating for cycling. Makes our city friendly. See things through fresh eyes when you have children. Will we have a community that is diverse in 20 years? Would my daughter want to live here? Kids are environmentally aware now, they will blame us. Can we say we did everything we could?
Ward: Do we get along on the cycle ways?
John: Is conflict real or conceptual? Bikers rave about cycleways. Have to transfer more (more confident) cyclist into more/different routes.
Matheson: You said “Nelson has become a place where people come to die rather than live”?
John: We need the younger generation to come, create opportunities for them.
McGurk: cultural aspects to keep children here, how can council have a role?
John: need council lead development, encourage industrious people.
Copeland: You say the Refinery is a good hub, any other buildings?
John: Don’t know. Great to see Refinery used, good starting point.
Mark O’conner, Penny Dawson – Federated Farmers
Welcome low rates increases. Opposed to any more increase with inflation. Farmland – rates make up significant amount of expense.
Nigel Muir Lisa Macintash – Sport Tasman
(Showed Video from Sport NZ) You are a leading council when it comes to sports.
Support for 13,000 active cyclists. More cycle ways. Need kids back on bikes.
Partnerships - seasports, strong growth
Saxton Field - Where to next? Continue to work with both councils.
Lions Tour - support. Cricket re-signalled how important it can be.
Attract major events - need strategies to work toward more
Noonan: reduce $ spent on pathways?
Tim: Tahuna sports facility?
Lisa: It was in the 2012 plan, withdrawn, check on feasibility to see if it can go again. Combined facility would be good
McGurk: major events strategy?
Nigel: Auckland is successful and a good template. Queenstown is aggressive.
Wayne Ballantyne – Shelbourne Villa
Putting extra rates on higher value properties, they are already paying their fair share. There is no link to services. Rates based on envy. Mine are 72% higher than neighbouring properties, why? I just pay because YOU think I can afford it. Better alternatives; like those properties where their damage risk is higher.
Only on commercial properties is unfair. CBI up 51%, ridiculous.
2nd highest council in operating cost. Council is cause of businesses leaving centre of city, city will be dead.
Ward: your business is run from home?
Wayne: B&B. We pay commercial waste-disposal charges. There are a lot of business that are NOT paying commercial rates. Unfair when others are working from home. And everyone paying the same is not fair either, but needs a middle ground.
Neil Hodgson – Rotherham St. Body Corporate Units
Want waste water remission. One water connection serves for 16 users.
Neil as Savage & Savage –
Just because it’s in the budget, it doesn’t have to be spent.
One tourist organization is enough. Uniquely Nelson is for CBD only, but they have to work together with tourism. Was the local retailers group, they wanted to control their own destiny.
Arts Festival – not bi-annual, performance only. Low attendance of many local productions.
CBD enhancement - needs to be managed properly
Matt: as a sponsor of the Arts Festival for 9 years, annually or every 2 years?
Neil: We could continue, but only once if it was biannually. Broad appeal but limited pool of local actors, they would just change their name and show. Would not get full houses if using local pool.
Mark Edwards – business consultant StratNZ ltd
Worked on 5 regional projects. Page 22; review is underway.
External review, open or closed? What are the terms of reference? What is industry’s best practice?
EDA - needs urgent review. Shop closures and drop in forestry industries.
Tourism - needs more money, not less. Merged organizations is a short term solutions. 50% of all mergers fail. Over stretched management, groups are not compatible, doesn’t offset costs. Have conflicting agendas. Culturally different. Need a wider strategic review for self-sustaining economy.
Copeland: we haven’t seen the review yet so we don’t know the scope.
Mark: I get the impression you do know. It’s been running for 11 years, so why not review it anyway. Seems to presuppose the outcome.
Mike Thomas and John – Tahuna Business Assoc
Additional parking by pharmacy, have talked about in the past. Safety of bus stop. Re-aligning crosswalk. Tree lined streets.
John – seal the bottom of the pond and make it work. Modellers and Richard Kirby are consulting. Beach reserve, not valued at present time. There is discussion about Tahuna, but not a lot of action. Want to see the pond back and functioning.
Removal of police has caused increase in crime around Natureland. Police station was integral part of area. Need to make sure of the welfare of the new animals at Natureland.
Library – earthquake issues around foundation.
Commuter cyclist. Want Great Taste Trail to come around airport and Holiday Park, can work with modellers pond. Things seemed to have stopped.
Matt: Everyone says stop spending. Do you want the Modellers pond or Natureland?
Mike: Not a choice, both assets, need tourism focus. You already have assets and need to make them functional.
Mike Rodwell and Malcolm Saunders - Nelson Residents Assoc
Ken is unable to be with us, his report is the most comprehensive of many you will get.
Members have had full input to this submission. We stopped to see Ken on our way here and he expressed that the underlining fact we would like to convey to council is to concentrate on core facilities.
Cawthorne Park – last time we were before Council we made a strong plea for councillors to go up and have a look. We were worried about slips and it has now happened. Thomas Cawthorne donated many things to the city; money for the hospital, the chain fence on Rocks Road, the church steps, the pipe organ and land up the Brook. We’re concerned with damage to that land, and the impact of the fence. The interest will be widespread since so many have put in money, but one individual gave the land to the city and it’s a shame there is no recognition of Thomas Cawthorne.
Matt: Core service, is the modeller’s pond a core facility?
Malcolm: Yes and no. I question spending a large amount of money on it.
Ward: Cawthorne Park, I’ve never heard this name?
Mike: Locally it used to be called the Waterworks Reserve. In the deed of gifts is was given to the city and not to be leased or sold. The name is not commonly known.
Ward: Do you think he expected the world to stand still?
Mike: He would have expected progress, he liked the birds, but he wouldn’t have liked the way the park is being treated now.
Renata Mijatovic Schrader – Life Pharmacy (CBD business owner)
Want international airport.
Barker: airport? How can we move to make this happen?
Renata: complicated issue, I’m only looking at economic issues. Queenstown is smaller than us and has access to Australia. Combined ownership with Tasman, plus private ownership. Need more competition with air routes.
Matt: as a retailer, should we have the Arts Festival every year?
Renata: Yes, brings people come to town. Right now numbers are diminishing, need sustainable retailing.
John Gilbertson – Nelson Motel Association of NZ
Freedom camping – people ought to be using camp ground, not car parks
Noonan: Trafalgar/Rutherford playground, cost & placement?
John: you have other areas with playgrounds you can invest in… Tahuna. Put in a track for mobility scooters instead. Not good to have playground where there are going to be major events, do it in Branford park instead, it’s already a park.
Copeland: Rates for motel accommodation?
John: membership is different in different areas. Turnover is different
Copeland: B&B vs motel?
John: focus needs to be on other accommodation
Paul Jennings – cycling
Support for regional Cycling Forum, 40 organizations come together. So much energy needs to consolidate. Needs to be under one roof, many different ways to cycle.
Gondola – support, there is value if it’s done right
Maitai Golf – support. Well set to be good for user groups, great opportunity.
Fit together as jigsaw. We have single interest, but want to work with other groups
Tim: What about the entrance to the gondola on the Maitai side?
Paul: Maitai already really good, under-utilized. Also has other user groups watching development, Friends of Maitai. OK for us, maybe not the gondola people.
Rainey: 100,000 each year, compare to marina with 1000 users, they pay 2K. Golf pays green fees, could bikers pay $10 each?
Paul: we’ve given 10K to Heafy Track, 3K to Dun, always has had cost for things and events. We can add energy. All our money goes to trail maintenance and building, members pay $35 each.
Matt: will more come to Nelson?
Paul: already globally noticed for film makers to make ads for bikes. We want to be a national and international player. The world sees Nelson as the place, but there is huge value to develop. We need to capitalise for further development, build, join groups and market.
Martin Shand – Guardians of the Nightingale Library
A focal point for Tahuna area. Also used as a meeting room by various groups. What we want is extra funding to implement the plan to refurbish.
Rainey: when was plan first developed?
Martin: began in 2007 when the library trust money was liberated
Faye Wulff – Community Art Group
Community Assistants Fund name should be changed to Community Investment Fund. There is $50,000 worth of work donated. Asking you to invest in community.
Rachel: would you prefer greater certainty?
Faye: I’ve been in this 15 years and funding is always different and that makes it hard. You’ve been supporting for 4 years. We were funded by polytech, never central government. We roll with what comes along.
Matt: future of organization, what happens when you retire?
Faye: mentoring someone to replace me. I would work for about $35,000 a year worth of volunteering.
Copeland: what about a forum body to oversee some different groups?
Faye: forum is good to talk things over, administer… would that be a conflict of interest?
Rainey: happy with staff?
Katie O’Donnell – Women’s and Children’s Refuge
We’ve taken care of 500 women and children in last 12 months. We provide a safe house from physical harm. 24/7 crisis line, counselling, outreach, work with police re violence. Work in partnership. $500,000 is just enough to tick over, we are in a funding crisis. 9 part-time staff plus volunteers. Concerned with reduction of community fund. Sometimes we can’t collaborate, it’s too private. Some money comes from Government. If not financially, are there other ways council can help? Loss of funds would compromise our work. Outcomes are the choices the next generation will make. Immediate outcomes may not seem tangible.
Katie: if we get “clients” legal aid, they are still looking at a legal bill and maybe loss of all her assets. We have good supportive lawyers who help before they look at the money.
Noonan: do most come in for an overnight?
Katie: Some just need an overnight, some 6 weeks to 2 months. We are adequate, but not a home. There is a lack of affordable homes, they might have debt and other problems. Overflow problem over summer, but usually steady. We have 5 bedrooms and can sleep 12, usually ½ full.
Rachel: are you getting $ from Tasman?
W. H. Beek – Friends of the Glen
We need funding to upgrade Elie St in the Glen.
Blocked main drains and stormwater. Old water race also acted as stormwater. Slips have filled it in, some residents have also filled in the ditch not knowing its purpose. From Farm catchment. Pipes are not cleared and maintained.
It’s the entrance to Cable Bay walkway, people park too close and have slipped in.
Davey: we have other submissions from those who don’t want any work done
Beek: it’s a shared access way, majority don’t want pavements to change the character of street
Matt: why are some blocking the pipes?
Beek: old problem. Water went across street to trench. They don’t clear them out or will block them so the water won’t run down their property.
Lindsay Wood – preparing for the apocolypse
Based on report from a London brokerage. Economy will be crash in next 10 years. Gone are your car, toys, golf, holiday, etc.
We have serious targets and limited time before global warming affects us. Arguments are compelling, but LTP says nothing. We need to prepare to get off fossil fuels, need a low carbon society. Climate protection, but council is silent on this issue. We are creeping along with no game plan. Use next 3 years to collate information so next plan is robust.
Ward: why wait in 10 years?
Lindsay: we need to sort out problems
Copeland: Nelson 20-60 plan, what is the option?
Lindsay: should be in LTP rather than a side group. Build Resilience – how will we transport goods with no petrol, etc.
Jackie McNea – NMIT
Development contributions are no longer on exemption list. Being a Crown entity. Issues are becoming grey
- Jackie as Staig & Smith
Double system confusing on value of dwelling. Needs to be fair and proportionate. Reduction for smaller units… your scope is too narrow
- Jackie Adcock Properties
They own land on Toitoi st/Montreal at the top of Princess Dr. Just a concept for comprehensive housing. 200 mixed residential activities.
Staff need a clear political message as to their mandate from council in order to negotiate
Davey: bulk of 200 properties is estimated at 1050 vehicle movements on Montreal to Vanguard
Vickie: this is just a concept.
Rachel: contributions policy, you are comfortable with process?
Vicky: always more demands than money.
Steve Cross –
The LTP is not a plan but a list of pet projects for the credit card. Not communal needs being met, this is appeasement not essential services. $70mil of debt is not as important.
Rates increase - not sustainable. Not constant in real terms. You are taking greater portion of our disposable income. Stick to rate of inflation. More people over 65, you have no right.
We will be the most indebted council in country. It denies future ratepayers a choice.
Asset Sales - Manage now rather than be forced in the future.
Flooding - We don’t have to accept that since we are on flood plain we have to “live with it”. Other councils have managed the flooding problem. Must deal with problem now rather than deal with the result of flood events. Richmond is addressing problem and they will leap ahead.
A lot of corporate welfare, free parking is corporate benefit.
Tourism - why do they get funding. Fishing, forestry stand on their own feet. Should be user pays, they are not that precious.
EDA - is a waste of money. Lame Duck organization. Laundering service for events, no transparency. People do not make decisions based on their reports. Does not create jobs.
Pet crematorium – not core, people who use it should pay.
Rubbish bins – why is this a budget item
Marina – hand over to Port Nelson, Harbour Board.
Gondola – take it out of the plan. Chch gondola was $22 mil to build in 1999, sold it for 1m.
Nature funding – why through community assistance, another fund that needs tight parameters.
Events – money from everywhere, tighten it up, explain money
Morning Tea ------------------------
Vicki Smith – Artist in the Marina
Recent resident. Consultation document, but you cut things that make a vibrant community.
Assistance fund – support, but expense and time, and then cutting funding. You are setting up a further administrative layer. This has detrimental effect, cutting at the lower end.
Public and community Art – Refinery is great, has potential to be hub for edgier art.
You talk about decreasing funding or matching funding. They are working hard, and find it hard to find sponsorship.
Light Nelson – happy to see money put in this, there was a massive amounts of volunteer time.
I’m also a cyclist and like development on Rocks Road
Copeland: extra administrative officers?
Vicki: it looks like this is a new position, and drawing back from smaller groups.
Richard O – Money Free Movement
Nobody could do more to convince you, but you keep handing out Band-Aids. Have to jump out of existing paradigm. It will solve every problem you have, personally and globally.
Which part of this doesn’t make sense to you? What don’t you get?
Everything is free and work is voluntary.
Copeland: the actual issue is an individual issue of consciousness. Collective will have its own advancement of events. What do you feel?
Richard: running system is not natural. Hasn’t been here all the time. Things have to run their course. How bad do things have to get?
Leanne Pressman – Ministry of Inspiration
Inspire Festival – 4 years running, creative and successful, engages youth and community groups, in one place to explore future. Unique and inspirational. Have a 3 year plan. I see a larger city taking this away, but we want it to stay in Nelson. More than Arts, more than Science, want to make it a week or 10 days. Now it sells out in a few minutes.
Synchronizes with your 10 year plan goals.
Noonan: aiming at 8-18 year olds. Would those speakers be available for others?
Leanne: that is our goal, to extending it for the parents and adults. Like TED talks. And a component to add in the art community. Want public talks.
Ward: Festival not a conference.
Leanne: Yes. With a large volunteer base, NMIT works with us, Nick Smith, but want to draw on community to focus on one place in a dedicated period of time.
Rainey: I have been twice, fabulous. Have you made previous funding applications?
Leanne: Yes EDA, but did not accept, but we want to expand. It could be in conjunction with other festival events. Emerging or amalgamating.
Barker: Looks great, but should be throughout the whole country. Tax payer should be involved.
Leanne: yes, that would be great.
Peter Watson – Waahi Taakaro Golf Club
Multi use of Maitai valley. Poised to become a more popular place with cycling and more mountain bike tracks. Walking, all ages to get exercise. Brook is getting congested. Less residents to annoy.
See opportunity to grow, ours is best of council owned golf courses. Suffered by lack of management. Static, want to do more.
Our club rooms can be hub for other activities, we’re already renting out more often. Would be more sustainable, need to upgrade building. More people, more exposure for golf.
Rainey: your rational is good. Can mountain bikes access from across the river? Make a track on course side?
Peter: idea died a quick death, but it’s possible, easier to get to Dun from here
Copeland: can you reduce the scale of the course?
Peter: it’s only a 9 hole course now, can’t reduce.
Barker: User pays philosophy, golfers pay, would mountain bikers pay?
Peter: haven’t thought. We pay levies to council
Richard Sullivan –
Becoming less affordable and rates should be reduced. It is 36 x rate of inflation. Index rates to average to income. Shouldn’t subsidise businesses. Regional development and Tourism, if they want development they can pay themselves. No to Sanctuary, you got rid of a profitable camp.
Kate Malcolm –
Global carbon dioxide highest in 2000 years. Nothing in the LTP plan. You have not taken this as a goal and will not do anything about it. Doesn’t need to be big, but need to make a start. You need to discuss it seriously.
Rachel: what about transport, cycling paths?
Kate: want to see strategy for the subject.
Louise Edwards – Canterbury Community Trust
$20mil into area funding projects from sale of Canterbury bank. See relationship as key. There will be an adverse effect to reduce the Community Funding. Needs to be an exit strategy plan so people are not impacted adversely.
Louise: interest rates have impacted, but we are working for a stable income
Matt: do you talk to other councils?
Louise: yes, but this will create a gap and these groups count on your funding, you need to be careful about exiting. Our funding is based on population.
Rainey: there is a reduction in our funding, but we wanted to create more, better partnerships.
Louise: trying to be more strategic, getting better bang for your buck. Better research to help money go further. But you can’t cut these people off cold.
Ward: our support is wider than funding
Louise: yes, capacity building. But some organizations will fall over with no funding.
Louise: we’re not going to get another building, but have helped some of the groups.
Rachel: did the model (hub) not work?
Louise: hubs and clusters do work, but have pulled out of some others when they weren’t transparent or some groups were not all treated equal.
Ray Curtis and Jane Bailey – Rasamibe Co
Land fill from former orchards. Charges are increasing, run by contractor. Cost of disposing of contaminated soil has gone up. Tonne based vs volume based is a difficulty. Have to pay more for soils exceeding “residential standards”. Will impact “affordable housing”. Tasman Districts materials also have to be dumped. Soil could be used for bunds. It isn’t contaminated, just doesn’t meet the standard.
Barker: people used to pay you for fill?
Ray: it will be a real big issue.
Rachel: this will go to the rules reduction committee
Steffan Eden and Simon – Bayview Subdivision
4k toward Attawhai. 5 min to CBD, easy public transport.
800 residential sections. There is no plan for council to develop area.
Ward: your client is more realistic?
Steffan: Ridge lines, landscape overlay, no contaminated soil. Cost benefit ratio.
Matt: cost of section?
Steffan: $300,000 plus
Noonan: any other issues?
Steffan: only to manage aesthetics on ridge lines viewing from Main Rd. Landscape overlay has not been reviewed in 3 years. There has been demand for smaller developments and they have sold.
That land is off the radar and we want some development in the next 5 years.
Rachel: can you offer land for a water reservoir.
Ward: other developments possible?
Steffan: could be looked at. Want to capitalize of the land that is available.
Adrian Parlane – Marina Berth Holders Assoc.
You ordered to increase fees with no consultation. Marina is over 50% full. Some are very concerned over new fees and moving to Mapua – they are retired. 20% of after tax super goes to payment. These are challenging economic times. If fee forces out 15 people, income will remain static. Marina is self-funding, but this was not an agreed increase.
Rachel: what about passing management over to the Port?
Adrian: has worked effectively in the past. If it was commercial it would become a rich man’s place and retired people would leave. As a concept it’s OK. Worth exploring. Already have 17% return on your money.
Davey: I have a caravan, could people take boats out and store elsewhere?
Adrian: only little boats, not the big ones
Chris Millson – Marina
It’s a draw-card for the region. Costs – no justification to raise rents. Hasn’t had consultation.
Ring-fenced acct – need reasons for increase, use the user-groups, they know best.
Signs on bins still not solved.
Noonan: Financials, did you get them?
Chris: Yes I have them now.
Rachel: Hard stand?
Chris: use local providers.
Addo Mulders –
It’s me again, always moaning about something. Footpaths along Maitai, used by pedestrian to relax, shouldn’t have to widen for bikes, can use it with care or use road. Use a bell, pedestrian has the right of way. We don’t need more concrete, bikers can adjust.
There is no indication for walkers only for bikes.
Noonan: The near miss with cyclist, where was it?
Addo: Near riverside pool where it is very narrow. And they were annoyed with me walking.
Peter Lawless – Nelson Biodiversity Forum
I am independent coordinator and advisor. Message from Forum is that they applaud your initiative. Making sure there isn’t overlap with things like Forest & Bird. One gap is no provision with Marine issues.
Barker: Wasps in forest? Problem honey bees? Argentine Ants? Are you addressing these?
Peter: Forum hasn’t addressed these… Wasps in forest… we are more interested in “is there a forest”, plenty of useful things to do, money will only stretch so far.
Lewis Solomen – Body Corporate
We have one water connection for 5 units. Our daily charges will go up 5X. We can’t afford any more rates increases. Have rates and corporate fees. We have income of 5.2% and still have maintenance expenses. Retailers not renewing leases, commercial centre is moving out toward Richmond. Charges are out of line with Tasman.
Rachel: what letters when out? We’ve never seen these so we have no questions.
McGurk: in industrial area?
Lewis: McLashen Ave.
Noonan: where are rates on outgoings?
Lewis: it’s our #1 expense.
Anne Koiles –
Women’s emergency centre is now the Women’s Refuge. Women were first told to go home and take care of our children. The problem is still around. Nita Night has stuck with it all these years. We used to go to market to raise money. It would be good to have some of the carpark covered for stall holders.
In the old days we ran the market and when it was taken over by council we were to be given a portion of the money for giving up the running of it.
Barker: Yes that was the plan, a previous Mayor removed it.
Angus McNeil –
Not a lot more to say, looks like it could be written by Jim Cable, I apologise.
Rachel: apology accepted.
Matheson: free parking on Parapara rd.?
Angus: no one pays attention because covered by rates not income.
Charmain Koed –
Excellent article in Last night’s paper. Residents need to feel part of the process.
Friends of Maitai has members with necessary skills and should be consulted. If we have more cycle way to Richmond, we would lose another walkway.
Ward: route for competent cyclists?
Charmain: not compatible with walkers, would be disruptive and would lose trees.
Pam Mander –
I live up the Brook motor camp. I don’t understand why the camp is closed to public. Now we can’t have electric cables over caravans… have you checked other camps? You are doing the best to close us down. Feb last year there were 50 people, now only 20. $80 incudes power, that’s $3000 a week you could get benefit from.
It is huge asset and could be developed. You want 160 car parks for gondola, Fresh Choice only has 88, there will be no camp left. Sancturary wants car parks, NMIT – keep buildings where they are outside the campground. Hill is creaking and groaning!!!!!
People come to the camp ground, people drive away, no manager on weekend. Tokens for showers, can’t pay in the morning, can only take cold shower. So inefficient. Making no money, but has potential. You have told people by email the camp was closed and it’s not.
Matt: how long have you lived there?
Pam: 4 ½ years, I would like my own my own place. It’s not for me, it’s that it should be there. Maitai camp has chemical spray, earthquake/dam break risk. Helicopters. Not just me, should be available for cheap accommodation. People ask why and we don’t get answer.
Rainey: are you happy with info from draft management plan?
Pam: Haven’t seen, heard nothing, no one tells us
Chris Leming, Pewter Burton, Ed Kiddle - District Health Board
Water fluoridation. Good to take initiative on sugary drinks. Healthy Homes partnership.
Want to see expansion of water quality. Only place that has fluoridation is military base. Debate bounces between local and central government. I hear about choice, but worried about the young kids. Elderly have root problems – fluoridation would help. Had kid and had to take out 11 teeth. Word from World Health is that there are no negative effects to fluoridation. Have a community consultation, cheaper than a referendum.
Matheson: water grading?
Chris: we get graded but I don’t know. More on our performance, not water quality.
Matheson: reduction in community assistance, how far do we go?
Chris: we want to foster well-being, but costs money. We have to see the value
Matt: people who don’t want fluoride, can you buy a filter?
Chris: buy bottled water or filter, fluoride appears naturally.
Matt: off licences?
Barker: fund says, “not for health related matters”, they have stopped receiving tax payer money and now it’s the ratepayer. How can you help?
Chris: public funding is a challenge, but invest a lot in both services, moving into prevention. What is activity, health? Community?
McGurk: older population?
Chris: 40% across the boards, we look at the whole community. Kids, elderly, low income adults.
McGurk: Healthy Homes?
Rachel: Community assistance, do you have a fund?
Chris: don’t have, but have Health Alliance, might reinvigorate the Charitable Trust
Rachel: are you prepared to partner with us? Like Women’s Refuge.
Rachel: Fluoride, want to ask ministry of health to help?
Chris: we don’t want to wait for them to debate the boundary. Time for action.
Rainey: anti-smoking is shifting and may be totally banned in public places, parks. How far can we go to enforce these things? Smoking or sugary drinks.
Chris: trying to get rid of drinks by 2025. Smoking needs a shift in public thinking to stop it in the outdoors.
Michael Murphy - Jazz Club
Asking for funding through EDA for Jazz Festival. Been doing for 24 years in Fairfield Park, now reviewing format as funds have dwindled. Park events, ticketed events, bars and pubs spread around. Street party. City gives $20,000, we give back $15,000. Community assistance is not really appropriate.
Rainey: need to look other places?
Michael: it’s a luxury rather than assistance. Nelson would be in the top 2-3 festivals in the country
Bruce Polinghorne – Marina Berth Holders Assn.
We did this in 2011 - that any increases would be attached to the CPI, this is a 50% increase and no one knows where it came from. We’re treated like a bunch of aliens. This is long and historical, back to 1880’s, oldest yacht club in NZ. People involved are not ultra wealthy. We have consistently contributed to the fund. We’re suddenly considered a cash-cow. In Havelock have suddenly lost 50% of berth holders. There are empty slips already.
Penny Molnar – Community Sector
We build relations with those whose voices are not heard. Needs strong infrastructure. Community Assistance fund is important for these groups for grants.
Partnering - we are good at that already, we go to 30 different places to get our work done. Could build with business sector i.e. heating.
Skinner: temperary housing, where do they go?
Penny: Salvation Army used to have a hotel, we use the Camp ground, Tahuna holiday park. Heating, those with electrical heat causes financial strife. Asthma is on the increase. Power bills; people are terrified to turn on heat pump.
Penny: Council and community coming together, network on setting goals, funds best to go where. A lot of underline need. YMCA wants strategic partnerships. Flag-waving events get the publicity rather than the grass roots.
McGurk: heathy warmer homes. What happens to people who doesn’t fit in other groups like district health?
Penny: not elderly, just poor.
Ward: things that aren’t properly funded by other means. Are there other ways to put them in other streams… other than community assistance?
Penny: Need to have representation so we can channel money and work together.
Ian McKeage & Alan Innes-Walker – Nelson Lawn Tennis Club
We wanted to source all the money needed for a new club rooms. We’re in 4th stage. $1.5m for whole project. We’ve paid for 1/3. Building will cost $260,000 we have $100,000 short fall. This is the final stage of a large complex, for our 200 members and casual users, 1500 use it casually. Want to convert casuals into members.
Ian: $40,000 loan from Tasman Trust.
Rachel: Why are you not getting money?
Ian: Have applied to Pub Charites, Canterbury, 2 other trusts. Competing interests. Rutherford Park has limited us to work with other sports. We can’t build until all the money is in the bank
Afternoon Tea --------------------
Pat Webster – Community Workers Training and Support Trust
We’re confused about your strategic partnerships, what are you talking about?
Council seems to be happier working with larger partners than small groups. And just another way for council to keep an eye on funding. We need some space to work the way we like.
Offended by “value for money”, how do you measure, overly bureaucratic.
Businesses don’t put money into welfare stuff – doesn’t appeal.
Rainey: small funding amounts, should council divulge the numbers?
Pat: don’t know
McGurk: allocation process?
Ted Howard – Nelson Kite Club
25 years of festivals. Neal Park is perfect. Ran it ourselves. Recreation officer incorporated it into the summer events. We got asked to leave, and run it ourselves again. We became an Inc Society, and have lost status, treasurer, grants, etc. If we can’t reincorporate this into the summer festival we will die.
Rainey: what is budget?
Ted: we run it on $1,000, which is mostly for sound system. Now complaints about road management, toilets, and has to be in January for the wind. St. John’s has gone. Also good for Wellington to come across for festival. Good summer pattern of wind.
Murray King – WWAC
Seeking ongoing support.
Cameron Forbes -
We don’t have enough funding, we have to take on some people for free.
Noonan: when does our funding finish?
Davey: reading, literacy, medical skills?
Cameron: Functional literacy, (critical literacy is interpretive), dyslexic people, help so they can go on to productive life
Davey: the way teaching is changing, what about technology?
Cameron: We run a computer course at night; people who are scared of computers, we have teachers who are very sensitive. Courses for Smart phones too.
Rachel: how long funding?
Cameron: 3-4 years
Zac Domike -
Storm water such a high percentage of rates. Provide incentives for people with individual tank on roofs, or have temporary control of flood rains, Biogas digesters.
Elspeth McDonald –
Dr PhD, in Nelson 2 ½ years, Marina Berth holder. Community Connectedness. 48% increase over the next 10 years. Should not be indexed like houses and suburbs. Only 10% of boaties are wealthy. Many are retired. We have power, showers, washing machines, garbage. Houses appreciate, boats depreciate. Maintenance is necessary for safety. And has to be done immediately. Marina contributes to social life of city. We use local harbour services when big fleets are out at sea. Adds visual appeal. Comparating marinas doesn’t tell the full story. Have to compare apples with apples. We shouldn’t be adding money to the Hard Stand which is commercial, or sporting facilities that involve the water.
Will Andrews –
Cycles – you have spent millions on cars and parking, shifting to bikes is healthier – most car movements are less than 5k; bike riding would save millions in health services. Shift focus away from motorists to provide for other modes of transport. Fast roundabouts discourage walkers and bikers. Bikes have 8% share of commuting. Update 2006 strategy, integrated transport, bus, bikes, etc. Higher density city living is the way to go. Less need for car trips.
Appoint a cycling officer to keep an eye on strategy and set goals.
Matt: Stoke Memorial Hall, why save the building?
Will: Iconic beautiful building, don’t know earthquake rating, good size for our local/Stoke events.
Copeland: why do you feel this way about bikes?
Will: Wife is from Stoke, I’m from Dublin. In Dublin Google moved in and eliminated car parks and went right to the city centre. Worked well.
Noonan: what about the conflict with walkers, cyclist could slow down?
Will: need policy, but not easy solution. Educate users on paths. I like cars to give me space, so I give space to walkers.
Hudson Dodd and Charlie - Brook Waimarama Sanctuary Trust
Urge to continue your modest funding for this hallmark reserve. There are historic structures within sight. It’s Council’s obligation for restoring these, not our obligation, we see it as just part of sanctuary history. And what is the historic value? Look at this in long term planning.
Biodiversity – salute your efforts with Nelson Nature.
Fence – on target, will be finished 1 year from now. Working with Opus and council with issues as they arise.
Rachel: What Heritage structures?
Hudson: Pedestrian Bridge. Needs strengthen. Should proceed and carry forward.
Rachel: numbers on bridge, you think $54,000 is light?
Hudson: Staff officers say 90k nore realistic with new higher usage as sanctuary gets more visitors
Frank Hippolite – Tiakina te Taiao
Resource management group for iwis. Wakatu and another. From Treaty to present iwi has lost 99% of land. Impacted them in many way… economic. Without land it’s impossible to survive. April last year top of south settled with Crown. Monumental but could not provide for full loss – actually only 2% of true loss. We are concerned and don’t feel recognized. You have put up information signs for early ships, statues for Able Tasman, no recognition for those before the ships and they have given up 98% of loss. Suggest that iwi names be used. We lived here and are still here today. We’d like to see something material.
Settlement impacts on council and we engage with council. We want to engage, but not at our expense. We should be putting into LTP, statutory overlays and acknowledgments. Iwi should be resourced, as part of research, but not at their expense.
We have cultural and economic assets. We have forest, but must consider development aspirations of iwi. Maybe develop forest for housing, in a way we have planned. Maybe zoning considerations.
Climate change – if correct, and sea rises, will have impact on sewage ponds. If breached, there will be pollution in harbour. What’s good for iwi is good for community. Good water, clean harbour.
Infrastructures – may have impact on indigenous species.
Ackland: costs, what were discussions about consultation?
Frank: No discussions. Crown; take it or leave it.
Matt: what about a Maori Ward seat?
Frank: it would help. A voice at governance level. You don’t realize what actually impacts iwi. Our world is different.
Ackland: forest to housing. What can council contribute?
Frank: re-zone land in catchment. Consider our aspirations.
Maitai River – would have like to be part of planning group, we have donated $100,000 to Maitai clean-up project. As well as another stream. Iwi partnership doesn’t always cost you.
We have resources, funding we can bring to the table.
Alice Robins –
Works with community choir, and landscape management.
Encourage diversity, right through to plants and organisms. Council could engage in more active response and democratic processes. Millions can vote on X Factor, why not let people vote for council issues. People have lots to offer and inspiration. Use an on-line system like we do, give people more power.
Barry Thompson –
Inner city property owners. You are very unfair. I shouldn’t have to come each year, you take no notice. My ideas are not stupid, but business based.
Inner city rates – you continue to screw us. Richmond retail is going ahead, Nelson is going empty. Empty shops are going to Asian food stores. Empty shops: rates, parking building is needed, southern motorway is needed. 1966 you sold Broadgreen so motorway would be built.
State Advances building – earthquake information was wrong, it was empty for years, now it’s OK
There is a lack of confidence in staff and council
Maitai walkway – bloody walkway, scale ridiculous
Parking building – 5-6 years talked about, but no one would build until they know what council is going to do.
Davey: Millers Acre would cost $5m.
Barry: I could build it for $3m. Graham Dick proposed carpark in Buxton, retail on ground floor, parking above.
Free parking – rules changed too much. Police them, one exit and entrance. People don’t mind paying, but don’t like tickets.
Commercial Rates - You take no notice. Rates are criminal stealing. Watch your spending.
Rainey: maybe TDC was underrating?
Barry: we’re getting the same services
John Armstrong –
Playground facilities in Tasman Heights. 471 people with high growth, young families. Need park and swings. No parks within walking distance.
McGurk: Stormwater? What’s the priority?
John: not for me to say
McGurk: We are looking at infrastructure
John: we have nothing up there for children
Matt: where would you put it?
John: There is still more building going on
Ian Bowman –
Trustees of Isle House for 15 years. Architect.
Funding – reinstate the budget. Needs work on frontage. Were granted money but never been received, so need $15k to complete.
Management Plan for heritage – adapted reuse. Maintain, present, and research heritage values and enhancing. Built in 1839. Cultural landscape. Retention of current use. Retain setting. Someone suggested food outlet – not what we want, doesn’t fit our heritage ideas. Include with Broadgreen and Founders under libraries… should have been done already. Access to unique collection from original owners.
Heritage Trust – want to increase visitor numbers. $10k from tourism council, their work is excellent. We want them to create framework for us. Already going one for Nelson City. New ideas: heritage farm, ghost tours, coop with other houses properties – one ticket for all buildings.
$9k for conservation plan – Louise Beaumont, expert direction, she did Queens Gardens.
Copeland: suggestions, would you rather wait for the consultant?
Ian: would like the consultant. Coordinating meetings outside of hours sometimes difficult.
Peter Olorenshaw – NelSus
More money for council without asking ratepayers. Damage to roads is from heavy traffic, but only getting 51% from central government.
School commuting – needs a target to get people out of cars. Not just benefit for roads, but for students.
Traffic charts – We hear stories about waiting, but chart shows trend, and trend is going down since 2006. Shouldn’t be building in things for peek demand.
- as himself
Airport – should be moving money away from hazardous areas (like flooding) and ponds in Wakapuaka.
Inter-city living – need more people to make it vibrant, but keep an eye on suburbs also. User pays, shouldn’t have to subsidize.
Second dwelling on land is not a right. But if people were allowed to build a second building the land cost would be zero.
Air pollution in Tahuna – double domestic fires.
Glenys MacLellan –
Foot paths & Stormwater
- as Beneficiaries & Unwages Workers Trust
Morning Tea ------------------------------------
Graham Thomas – Marsden Park
Resource Management Consultant. Development contribution timing – only policy, nothing to do with quantity. Want deferment from fees until building consent comes in. Can negotiate on somethings but not policy. We want negotiation on timing of payments.
Road connections – up Marsden Valley. Development on left hand side already, Homestead Park. Developer is required to provide “indicative road” but it will be a main road going to Inner Glenn. Has to be totally paid for by developer, size is dictated by size and number of movements. Because of where it’s going it’s bigger and has more paths too, just because it’s going to Inner Glenn Road.
Rory Langbridge – Institute of landscape Architects
Things can be made affordable and still have a good outcome. Landscape treatments at pump stations.
Footpaths – could have guidelines rather than rules. Case by case consideration, and would save money.
Rutherford Park – has huge long-term potential. Needs well considered plan. Changes are being made on older projects. Changes need to be cautious.
CBD enhancement – no forward planning. Stick to the LTP and have a panel including landscape architects. Heart of Nelson – has high public input ,
Noonan: Rutherford Park, major things changed?
Rory: we have no details, but have been made aware of changes i.e. Trafalgar Centre.
Stu Allen – Showcase Nelson
Rainey: I have a conflict of interest.
Rachel: you can stay if you don’t ask questions
Venue for shows. Partnership with council. Community events. Would like council on board, with naming rights. Funding from 3-4 parties.
Would like some independent research. 40+ demographic, not rock concerts. Would want South Island exclusivity. Pre-sold tickets, start with 2 events in year 1, 3-4-day music event. Dream big, start small. Have a long term plan. Would like council to engage in market research, would benefit Nelson also as a city.
Don’t want to clash with other events already in Nelson, but would be dictated by availability of acts.
Noonan: build up event to 5-7 days in a residential area?
Stu: beyond year 6
McGurk: looking for outdoor venue?
Stu: needs a uniquely Nelson venue, semi rural
Sandy Fontuit – Gondola
Matt: there is a second hand market for gondolas?
Sandy: I don’t know, am concerned with this falling over and the council being stuck with the structure. Don’t want it to be a taxpayer liability.
Kathy Ewing, Lesley McQue, Greig – EDA
South island gets $23m in international education. We can get a larger part of the pie. We’d like to double the number. Combine with Marlborough and Tasman. Joint initiatives, business plan, project manager for plan. Co-funding with government is match funding.
Seeking council funding to get this joint match funding from government. After seed investment it would be self-funding. Would like top of south to benefit.
Education NZ – New Zealand, region, institute in our order of priority.
Rainey: $90k over 3 years. What is TDC contributing?
Rachel: Have you submitted to others?
Kathy: already submitted to others.
Marg O’Brien -
Worked with Cawthorne on biodiversity. Now working on climate change. Concerned with issues we have to face. Preparing and building resilience. Need to take steps before we have to. Moving to 0 emissions before 2050, not that far away.
Having trouble getting people to grasp this. Not all doom and gloom, a chance to move forward, this is an insurance, getting ready for change. Need a Carbon Neutral strategy. We have a potential to get ahead of this. Walkability. Carry on from previous research work, people are ready for climate change, don’t think there is enough planning.
Involve people so they can voluntarily begin to change.
Copeland: What sort of engagement?
Marg: Cawthorne has been doing for 4 years. Building resilience. Need a sense of success in their problem solving. Need people to know council is listening.
Steve Thomas – Boat Sales
In Nelson for 20 years, seen growth at Marina. Surrounded by service providers. Revisit the long delay in the Hard Stand. Opportunities have been missed… hotels, apartments in other areas. Been trying to raise interest with councillors. $1.54m for development. Need input of marina users.
Marine fees – ill-conceived and unnecessary. Marina is self-sustaining and will be paid off in 14 years. Don’t compare with others. Forcing users out. Average age is 62. Forcing change. Boat maintenance costs are high, need to keep marina costs down.
Rainey: should users be combined with marina businesses?
Steve: Yes, definitely, businesses have no group. Keeping cost down will get younger users involved. Very expensive, need to make it easy.
Matt: should it be run by port Nelson?
Steve: no, council just need to connect with users better
Keith Preston – Nelson Tasman Housing Trust
Community Housing – support your plan. Attracted Crown investment. Move fast in decision making. Incentivizing developers by fast tracking building consents. Future proofing developments. Infrastructure, parking consideration. We are not connected to political changes. Council could benefit from working with us, community trust and hospital. Increasing housing density.
Community funding needs to save a bit for exciting things that pop up during the year.
Efficiency and effectiveness in where the money and groups work. Many groups will go to the wall if not funded
Barker: is the trust working with private developers?
Keith: in Auckland there is a move and want to keep that stock of houses in the community. Working with Jennien Homes also. Need to develop more balanced communities. Need to take out 3-bedroom houses and put in more affordable housing
Skinner: Bond Bank?
Keith: $750 for people who can’t get into first home or rental bond. Moving out of town cost you more, so inner city is good.
Hugh Briggs – Melrose House Trust
9 on board of trustees, maintaining the inside of Melrose house. As landlord we need council to help maintain outside and gardens. Need upgrade for toilets. We’re also asking Canterbury Trust.
Rachel: What specific items?
Hugh: regular schedule of works for external, disabled access, café is principle source of revenue.
Ward: What’s the cost of these?
Hugh: need to talk to staff
Rainey: café in other buildings?
Hugh: café is key and fits in beautifully. Other houses need the same. It’s appropriate.
Colin Walker – Marina Berth Holders Assoc
1000s involved in boating. 200 financials members with half the people in marina. Public assess for public good. This recreation facility pays rates and doesn’t ask for subsidies. You are paying Nelmac $100k more than the best price in bidding for job.
Had row with Keith Marshall and Miccio over increase, 5th time I’m here. Don’t want to be victim of random price hikes. I’m retired and I didn’t get a 6% pay rise. I came from Picton because these fees are better. Have to spend $1000 to de-foul, because of worms in harbour. More than ½ the people are retired and already concerned with current level of fees. Havelock put fees up and now have 100 empty births. TDC increased fees, and now ½ empty. Would like a Works Berth for small repair jobs, parking has been eaten up and doesn’t exist, logs are causing pollution of water, security is only by live-aboards, work is going to Nelmac without going out to tender.
Graham Hill – the marinas in your report are not the same and fees shouldn’t be compared.
Copland: $3,500 a year for yourself.
Rainey: representation on your assoc?
Richard Morris -
Best tourist is one who stays longer, visiting yachts stay and this is overlooked.
Can’t raise fees when Marina isn’t finished. Been neglected for 20 years.
Rachel: marina in Trinadad?
Richard: it’s privately owned.
Rainey: businesses that do refits?
Richard: not coming to Nelson.
Barker: what about doing it like the Trinidad marina?
Richard: won’t work unless you want to attract businesses.
Barry Rowe - FC Sports and Trafalgar Sports and Recreation Groups
Want money for feasibility study
$20k to add to $20m development
Rainey: will it be owned by council?
Barry: built on Trafalgar Park. Idea is a concept, want to develop to next stage
McGurk: other groups?
Barry: need to find out who want to be participants
Scott + Roger Gibbons – Gibbons Property Ltd
Only have constructive comments. Groups wanting money, Achilles heal is that balance between small city budget and wants of large city. May things are outside the core
Roads, water, wastewater, flood control, should be main focus.
Get interest groups: transportation, retail, etc, get people around table before LTP is printed.
Flood – planning for 1 in 20 year flood. Extreme events, not normal
Development contributions – money shouldn’t go to flooding, nothing to do with growth.
Stormwater rates – unfair and unreasonable. Blunt tool. Most expensive properties are in port hills and not subjected to flooding. They should pay for everything.
Pay by users: Sanctuary and Gondola should not be ratepayer money
Marina – based on charges at other marinas is irresponsible
Vitality is gone, council needs to focus on infrastructure and not feel-good items.
We spend hours on submissions, we want early engagement, doing submissions by sectors would be better.
Rainey: you mentioned lost vitality in city centre, but what vision?
Scott: concentrate on core and set city up and vitality will happen.
Maree Shalders, Jackie, Graham – Youth Nelson (plus 20 kids)
It’s not just buildings, but people.
Jackie – I would probably be in jail if it weren’t for this group. Gives me a chance to get back to school and make something of my life.
Graham – thank you for the vans and buildings in Washington valley. Activities: boxing, orienteering, camps, sports, providing to get back into mainstream school. My attitude has change for the better. Youth park, etc.
Noonan: how many go through the system?
Maree: every senior in the programme passed, in maths ½ passed, 1 gone back to regular school
Akland: what if funding was cut?
Maree: we are a success because a lot goes into staffing, we couldn’t retain quality staff
Susan Hawthorne – Assoc of Psychotherapoists
We get no funding, but support community services. Government has withdrawn funding for family court.
Paula Muddle – Nelson Rescue Helicopter
Need money for a new winch
Accidents up Heafy Track and ski field are covered by ACC
End. Had to leave the Chamber and couldn’t attend evening session